常雄访谈:云上的梦境

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常雄访谈:云上的梦境

文:罗菲

按:常雄是一位来自云南大理彝族寨子的艺术家,他主要在布面和纸本上从事油画或丙烯绘画,他的绘画有好些不同的面貌,有时给人一种漫游于超现实云端的画面感,有时又把咄咄逼人的生死场景再现,有时给人一种微观的诗意画面。他的绘画率真、爽快、直接,就像他整个人一样。常雄将于2015年9月11日在昆明蓝谷存在艺术空间举办他的个展。本文是基于两次造访他工作室所做的访谈整理而成,我们从中可以了解到艺术家常雄的个人成长经历和他在艺术上的独特理解。

2014年1月23日下午、2015年7月29日下午
常雄工作室,昆明明日城市

《在云上》布面油画130X150CM 2015

《在云上》布面油画130X150CM 2015

1.个人成长经历

罗菲:从自我介绍开始今天的访谈吧。

常雄:我1984年出生在大理漾濞县石竹村的一个彝族寨子里。我有两个妹妹。不到一周岁,我第一次与死亡擦肩而过,听说那时我脖子上长硬头疮,发炎后咽喉到脖子右边直接穿了洞,当时家里很贫穷,不能去医院,家人都觉得只是时间问题,活不了多久。但我母亲不忍苍蝇在伤口里爬来爬去,下蛋生蛆,为了避免增加我的痛苦,她用鸡毛蘸着核桃油小心的穿过伤口,轻轻的给伤口四周抹油,可能我太小,感觉不到痛,意识里只觉得有火一直在烧我的脖子。她的行为给伤口起了消炎作用,我幸免了。
也是在同年,我又经受了比那更遭的意外,父母至今都不愿提及,那是他们的阴影,他们的痛。一次偶然,听我叔叔轻描淡写说起过,他说那是我又一次接近死亡,在那一年多里,我没日没夜地哭嚎,把整家人的心都哭碎了。母亲提起这段日子总会流泪,我们姊妹再也不问过去的事。
以后稍长,记忆深刻的是放牛,还有做农活和上学。小时候我怕羞,很腼腆很孤僻,喜欢独处。我接触最多的是父亲和他的徒弟们。父亲是个集木匠、石匠、铁匠、泥水匠于一身的手艺人,就是当地人说的吃百家饭的人,别人需要什么他们都能做,幼年时期随他四处奔走,学会做很多事情,也有机会看到民间各种器具,各样精美雕饰。我把我喜欢的那些形象刻画到石头、木板、墙体以及土坯等能让我折腾的地方,也会给他们画图样,或跟着他们打石头,雕刻。这样的一些经历,培养了我对画画、雕刻和建筑的兴趣及对美好事物的爱,扎实了我的好奇心,为现在成为游子奠定了基础,铺开了路。

罗菲:你父亲给了你最初关于艺术这门手艺的启蒙,你自己是怎么开始学艺术的?

常雄:我在大理中等师范学校学习,在那里学幼儿美术,一共学了三年。当时国画的课程比较多,篆刻、书法、工笔、写意都教。我自己特别喜欢写意。毕业后一年我到昆明参加了艺术考试。

《怠》纸面油画 27x30cm 2008

《怠》纸面油画 27x30cm 2008

罗菲:现在看你许多画里都有借鉴国画的技法。

常雄:我就是喜欢国画山水中庞大辽远的气势,水墨酣畅淋漓的韵味。它有接近自然、人心和贴切生活的东西。

罗菲:你刚才提到自己是游子,你有时会沿路搭车去中国西北部游历,你看到了怎样的中国?

常雄:在游走的过程中我看到农村都很淳朴和真诚,虽然经济上看起来比较贫乏,但比起很多城里人更安定,内心更平和。我们这一代农村孩子和城里孩子很不一样,我自己觉得能吃饱穿暖,做自己喜欢的事就很踏实了。虽然现在也有很多农村人往城市走,城市人也会去农村看可开发的东西,但是在我看来,这不是开发而是掠夺。

罗菲:这也导致农村的人际关系发生变化是吗?比如在你家乡。

常雄:是,现在很多人都会向经济看齐,哪怕是栽一颗树都会去争夺地方,互不相让。但有的地方还是不一样,人们很单纯,很乐意去帮助别人,在西藏我就感触特别深。

罗菲:你在路上搭车容易得到信任吗?

常雄:搭上我的人都比较信任我吧,在交谈中他们知道我是少数民族之后会问很多关于少数民族的问题。比如我们民族的性格怎么样,生活是什么样,然后大家就渐渐融洽了,路上也很放松。

《围观》纸面油彩 26X40CM 2011

《围观》纸面油彩 26X40CM 2011

2.两个世界

罗菲:在你的作品中我注意到有几个主要对象,人、动物和丛林,都是野生状态。无论是人还是动物,他们看上去都比较孤独,一种游离的状态,这是在表达你和家乡或者说世界的某种关系吗?

常雄:可能我的作品会有意无意的透露这种信息,但这不是我本身的出发点。我认为一切存在的生命,它们本身既是独立的,又是有关联的,是一种微妙的、若即若离的关系。

罗菲:你的画面中有两个世界,它们同时在发生着什么。比如这张作品是一群人在山脚下,山的外面是另一个城市或者村落。你好像在暗示它们之间有潜在的关系。

常雄:就像今天我们在聊天一样,在我们看来,这个事情很有意义,但是也许在这个时间段的另一群人看来,这个事情对他们毫无意义。比如说人类和蚂蚁,他们各忙各的事情,看上去彼此毫无关系却又息息相关,有时候我觉得世界是混沌在一起的,只是我们更多时候习惯用一个维度去看多维世界。有的时候觉得自己应该跳出习惯性的维度来审视世界,这么想了,就画了这种画面。

3.云上的梦境

罗菲:你这一组“在云上”这个系列里云的形象最初是怎么来的?

常雄:小时候我们那里环境比现在好,下雨之后云层就会出现在眼前,我就想,要是能把牲口赶上去就好了。小时候经常有这种幻想,于是就把小时候的幻想和现实画进画面。这种场景在以前的生活中太常见了。

罗菲:你小时候家乡的物资都是靠马帮和牛是吗?

常雄:是的,那时没有公路,只有崎岖的乡村土路。骡子是最好的运输工具,牛是最好的劳作工具,所以我们自己是不杀牛吃的。

《云上马帮-1》180X200CM 布面油画 2009

《云上马帮-1》180X200CM 布面油画 2009

罗菲:在我整理你作品的关键词中,有一个是“梦境”。你的作品中有一种恍若隔世的梦境感,它不是浪漫的童话书写,而是来自切身的农耕记忆。

常雄:对,这和生活有关。耕地我也会,几乎农村里所有的活计我都会。从播种到收成,所有的过程我都会,甚至篾匠我也会。

罗菲:什么是篾匠?

常雄:就是用竹子编一些器具,比如簸箕、背篮等。所以这些都是和我的生活有直接关系的东西。有时候我觉得我的那些生活经历就像梦一样的,它们已经变成回忆,和现在的生活越来越远了。

罗菲:画面中的动物好像是背井离乡,去往一个不明确的远方。

常雄:我觉得人在城市或农村应该可进可退,游刃有余,而不是对立的关系,关键是我们自己怎么更和谐,更平衡地去生活。

罗菲:你的画面中黑色用的比较多,这和彝族文化有关系吗?

常雄:黑色在彝族传统里是男性的主要颜色,女性用的颜色要鲜嫩些,比较多样。

罗菲:你自己怎么评价你的艺术?

常雄:我感觉就像是自己和自己的对话,有点像玩的一种状态,可以提供我快乐和思考。画画就是消磨时间,充实日子,也是一个自言自语的过程,作品只是宣泄的产物。

《云上马帮-2》180X200CM 布面油画 2009

《云上马帮-2》180X200CM 布面油画 2009

当代昆明:独立策展人罗菲谈中国西南地区艺术状况

LUOFEI-portrait-WEB_0

当代昆明:独立策展人罗菲谈中国西南地区艺术状况

作者:创意亚洲
日期:2015年8月7日

来自重庆的艺术家、作家、独立策展人罗菲已经在中国西南的另一座城市昆明定居了十五年,他与云南的艺术机构如TCG诺地卡和丽江工作室都有过合作。罗菲发起策划过一系列与欧洲的机构和艺术家有关的国际项目和驻地计划,他专注于发展本地创意群体与各地的联系与协作。

本月,罗菲将造访澳大利亚最北部地带,参与由澳大利亚文化交流项目和澳大利亚驻华使馆发起的“中国策展人达尔文至布鲁密沿途考察项目”。在罗菲出发之前,他与《创意亚洲》分享了为何昆明作为亚洲地区重要的当代艺术中心却鲜为人所知,也谈到了澳大利亚与中国云南地区将来合作的潜在可能。

创意亚洲:昆明的艺术现场是怎样的?和你的家乡四川相比如何?和北京上海相比呢?

罗菲:昆明在中国现代艺术发展历程中具有重要位置,它在上世纪八十年代曾经是中国现代艺术 “八五思潮”的重要发源地之一,这里诞生了中国最早的一代现代主义艺术家和群体实验。九十年代,这里也活跃着一拨从事先锋艺术的重要艺术家,如唐志冈、刘建华、何云昌、曾晓峰、李季等。2001年后,这座城市有了由艺术家发起的中国最早的艺术社区创库,当代艺术从地下走向地上,与城市生活融为一体,这也激发了本地更多的艺术社区。今天,年轻一代艺术家和策展人处于更具体的全球化处境中,他们不时在欧洲、北京、上海、昆明等多地工作和生活。和四川、北京或上海相比,昆明的艺术现场显得更随性和分散,这里的艺术家对自然和内心表现出更大的自觉与关注。

创意亚洲:你如何看待过去这些年本地的艺术发展状况?

罗菲:2008年后中国的当代艺术实践变得更常态化、多样化,不像之前发生的那些明显的“宏大叙事”和历史性转折,更多来自民间的微变。和其他城市一样,它一方面在寻求政府的支持,比如建立文化产业园。另一方面民间商业力量和创意文化也在改造它,人们正在探索如何介入传统的先锋艺术、实验艺术领域,艺术圈也在摸索如何与社会更好地合作,而非对抗。和90年代反绘画的先锋精神相比,今天的大部分艺术家重返绘画,尤其是风景绘画,这也反映出艺术界在文化态度上的转变。和活跃的艺术实践相比,这里的艺术教育、研究、批评、媒体和市场等方面的发展仍有很大空间。近些年具有复合型身份的策展人在艺术圈扮演着重要角色,他们努力推动着本地当代艺术的发展。同时,这些年昆明一直都有一些精彩的国际交流项目,它们为当地人了解世界各地的情况提供了鲜活的机会。

创意亚洲:昆明乃至在中国最重要的当代艺术机构有哪些?

罗菲:就我了解的,昆明/云南主要有苔画廊、TCG诺地卡文化中心和丽江工作室,成都有千高原、A4、蓝顶和成都当代美术馆,重庆有器空间,广州有维他命空间,北京、上海当然有更多活跃的当代艺术机构。

昆明创库、TCG诺地卡入口

昆明创库、TCG诺地卡入口

创意亚洲:你是如何成为一名独立策展人的?介绍下你的背景。

罗菲:我过去十年主要和TCG诺地卡文化中心还有丽江工作室有过较长时间的合作,目前也和本地的其他画廊和机构进行项目合作。我的背景是一名艺术家,主要从事行为艺术创作,同时也做策展和艺术写作。

创意亚洲:能否介绍一些你的策展项目?你是否有自己独特的策展焦点或兴趣?

罗菲:2005年我参与发起了“江湖”艺术项目,一个众多艺术家参与的游走于城市和农村不同角落的艺术运动。近期参与的策划的有“多重编译:中国-荷兰诗歌与文学交流项目”,参与这个项目的中国艺术家有和丽斌、苏亚碧、宁智、苏家喜、常雄和陈梵元。另一个国际交流项目是“桥梁:中国-瑞典当代艺术交流项目”,还有一些国际及本地艺术家的个展。我通过策展和写作致力于推动中国的当代艺术的发展,关注当代艺术中的精神性内涵和社会化实践,同时为中国当代艺术在全球化环境中的协作与对话搭建桥梁。

创意亚洲:你对即将参与的中国策展澳洲之行项目有什么期待?

罗菲:我是抱着学习的心态去了解澳洲的文化和艺术,尤其是原住民的文化和艺术,我相信这次旅行将对我产生巨大的启发和震动。

创意亚洲:你是否认为将来有与澳洲艺术家或机构一起工作的可能性?你对发展什么样的项目感兴趣?

罗菲:当然!实际上我和澳洲艺术家已经有过一些交流的机会。我对澳洲当代艺术和原住民艺术的发展十分感兴趣。中国云南也有许多不同的民族,如果他们能有机会与澳洲的当代艺术和原住民艺术展开交流,相信这会十分精彩。我以开放的心态去了解我将在澳洲经历的一切。

罗菲是参与2015年8月澳大利亚“达尔文至布鲁密沿途考察项目”的四位中国策展人之一,该项目由澳大利亚文化交流项目发起,澳大利亚驻华使馆支持。
本文由英联邦通过澳中外交与贸易理事会出品。

英文原文地址:http://creative-asia.net/content/kunming-contemporary-independent-curator-luo-fei-art-south-western-china

Kunming contemporary: independent curator Luo Fei on art in south western China

Kunming contemporary: independent curator Luo Fei on art in south western China

Author: CREATIVE ASIA
Date: 7th August 2015

Originally from Chongqing, artist, writer and independent curator Luo Fei has been based in the south-western city of Kunming for the past fifteen years. Working with organisations like TCG Nordica and Lijiang Studio in Yunnan, Luo Fei has initiated international curatorial projects and residency programs with European organisations and artists, focusing on developing connections and collaborations with local creatives.

This month, Luo Fei is travelling to the Top End as part of Cultural Partnerships Australia and the Australian Embassy in China’s Darwin to Broome Road Trip for Chinese Curators. Before he takes off, Luo Fei speakers with CREATIVE ASIA about why Kunming is a lesser-known but important centre of contemporary art in the Asia region, and the potential for meaningful Australia/Yunnan collaborations in the future.

CA: What is the contemporary art scene like in Kunming? How do you think this compares with your home-city in Sichuan, or Beijing or Shanghai?

LF: Kunming has an important position in the history of the development of modern art in China: it was one of the birthplaces of the ‘85 Wave and some of China’s earliest contemporary artists and groups grew up here. There were also some very active and important avant-garde artists working here during 1990s like Tang Zhigang, Liu Jianhua, He Yunchang, Zeng Xiaofeng and Li Ji.
In 2001, Chuangku LOFT art community, an artist-run initiative was established, and was one of the earliest art communities in China. Since then, contemporary art has moved from the underground to the public spotlight, embraced by the urban life of the city. This motivated lots of young artists to set up their own spaces and communities. Today, a new generation of artists and curators working in a more globalized context live and work between Europe, Beijing, Shanghai and Kunming. Compared with Sichuan Province, Beijing or Shanghai, I think the Kunming art scene is more casual and dispersed. Kunming artists are very much aware of nature and inner, emotional experiences.

CA: How have you seen the scene develop over the years?

LF: After 2008, China’s contemporary art scene has become more diversified, less conspicuous grandiose narration or historic turns as before, but more micro-changes. As in other cities, artists tried to seek support from government bodies to develop. On the other hand, local businesses and emerging creative cultural industries also tried to remould art scenes, more and more people tried to link contemporary art into their businesses or events, asking artists to cooperate with society, not resist it.
Compared with an anti-painting trend in the 1990s, a lot of artists have re-embraced painting, especially landscape art. Comparing active art practices in Kunming, there is still a huge potential to develop art education, research, criticism, media and marketing. Recently, curators with crossover identities are playing an interesting and important role, they do curating, writing, creation, teaching and marketing all in one. They promote local contemporary art’s development. At the same time, international projects also provide opportunities for local people to engage with the international art world.

CA: What do you think are the most important contemporary art organisations in Kunming and China more broadly?

LF: In Kunming and Yunnan province, they are Tai Project, TCG Nordica and Lijiang Studio. And Organhaus in Chongqing, Vitamin in Guangzhou. Thousand Plateaus, A4, Blue Roof and MOCA in Chengdu. I’m sure there are many more interesting ones in Beijing and Shanghai…

CA: How did you come to be an independent curator? What’s your background?

LF: Over the past ten years I’ve worked with TCG Nordica and Lijiang Studio. At the moment, I’m working with different organisations on different projects. My background is as an artist, mostly working in performance art. I also do curating and writing.

CA: Can you introduce some of your curatorial projects? What are your curatorial focuses or interests?

LF: I initiated the Jianghu project in 2005, this was a very influential two-year art movement between cities and rural locations in China and Europe. Recently I curated Multiple Adaptations: Chinese-Netherlands Art and Poetry Exchange Project working with Dutch print-makers and Chinese artists like Chang Xiong, Chen Fanyuan, He Libin, Ning Zhi, Su Jiaxi and Su Yabi. Also,Bridges: Chinese-Swedish Exchange Project, and many other international or local artist’s solo exhibitions. I promote Chinese contemporary art through curating and writing – I pay particular attention to the spiritual connotations of works and also social practices.

CA: What are you expecting of your upcoming curators tour to Australia?

LF: I am learning to understand the culture and art of Australia, particularly Aboriginal art, I believe this tour will be enlightening – it should have a great impact.

CA: Do you think there is potential to work with Australian artists or organisations in the future? What kinds of projects would you be interested in developing?

LF: Absolutely! Actually I’ve had some opportunities to meet with Australian artists. I’m very interested in Australian contemporary art and Aboriginal art developments. In Yunnan, we also have lots of different minorities, if we would have an opportunity to meet and collaborate with Aboriginal artists, that would be exciting. I’m open to all experiences and possibilities for this Australia tour.

Luo Fei is one of four Chinese curators participating in Cultural Partnerships Australia’s Darwin to Broome Road Trip for Chinese Curators in August 2015 supported by the Australian Embassy in Beijing.
This content was produced with support from the Commonwealth Government through the Australia-China Council of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.
See more at: http://creative-asia.net/content/kunming-contemporary-independent-curator-luo-fei-art-south-western-china

本文中文阅读:http://blog.luofei.org/2015/08/independent-curator-luo-fei-on-art-in-south-western-china/

On Zhu Jiuyang’s Declaration of the Blind

declaration-of-the-blind03

On Zhu Jiuyang’s Declaration of the Blind

By Luo Fei
Date and Time: February 6, 2015, 10 p.m.
Dialog: Over QQ Voice Message

Note: “The Declaration of the Blind” – the latest conceptual art by the contemporary artist Zhu Jiuyang – was premiered at the 99 Art Gallery and the Four-Dimension Art Space in Beijing on January 18 and 19, 2015. Five blind folk storytelling artists from Northern Shaanxi reinterpreted the full text of the “World Declaration of Human Rights” (hereinafter referred to as the “Declaration”) with their dialect. I had a dialog with Zhu Jiuyang on the background and the expression of his concept for this performance.

Luo Fei: How did you get to know these five blind people from Northern Shaanxi’s Yanchuan County?

Zhu Jiuyang: Years back, I watched the “Blind Storytellers”, a documentary by a young director Bai Zhiqiang. That was about a blind storytelling team from the Qingjian County in Northern Shaanxi. I was great touched and would like to one day work with them. Initially, I was thinking of inviting that group of blind people to perform. They used to be the members of the Performing Arts Propaganda Team during Mao Zedong’s era. However, they are too old now, and it’s rather difficult for me to work with them. Later on, Mr. Bai Zhiqiang introduced me to Mr. Cao Baizhi, a famous talking and singing artist in Yan’an. He then introduced me to this blind storyteller team. They come from Yanchuan, performing with Piba, or Chinese lute, while the previous team played with three-stringed instruments. Among five of them, only one can see a little bit.

Luo Fei: What did they normally sing previously?

Zhu Jiuyang: They used to sing Northern Shaanxi’s folk tales, plus they have been a self-organized Performing Arts Propaganda Team in the county.

Luo Fei: For this project, you spent three years traveling back and forth between Beijing and Northern Shaanxi.

Zhu Jiuyang: That’s right. Back and forth for three years. I thought it was going to be very simple, kind of like as long as I give them the “Declaration”, then they would go ahead and do it. Then I realized that’s not the case at all. It turned out that the adaptation of the “Declaration” into Northern Shaanxi storytelling performance required professional skills and was time-consuming. Because Mr. Cao was busy at that time, I literally said, for a couple of times, forget about it. Being generous, Mr. Cao agreed to help me with it in the end. Besides, it’s not easy to communicate with the blind team, as the ways of both thinking and working differ greatly from person to person. And the content for them to sing was totally new. The stories they were familiar with were the ones that have been passed down from generation to generation, those were easy to remember. There were also those songs that have been composed by the government about parsing socialism. They were all easy to remember. However, this was different in that it’s foreign to them and difficult to remember as there’s no plot in the “Declaration”. Mr. Cao was the only person who can talk to them. It occurred to me later that apart from him, I could have never been able to finish this project.

declaration-of-the-blind

Luo Fei: Could they understand your idea and cooperate actively?

Zhu Jiuyang: We practiced for a long time back to their hometown in Northern Shaanxi, but only one day at Beijing. That’s their first time to Beijing, and nobody really took them seriously back to their hometown. Mr. Cao explained the project to them and encouraged them to come over. I personally offered them financial support. Initially, only three of them wanted to come. Later on, as I said I could pay their air tickets and took them to the Tiananmen, the other two agreed to come too. It’s their first time to ride on the plane, and first time to Beijing. I also promised to take them and show them around at the Tiananmen Square. Actually they could not see anything there, so we just walked around the Square. At least they had their wish fulfilled.

Luo Fei: Did they feel something special when they sang this “Declaration”

Zhu Jiuyang: To begin with, it was a performance without plot, so it’s difficult for them to memorize. Then, some of them were worried whether they would be in trouble because of this. To which I told them that China is also a member of the United Nations, as well as a party of relevant treaties. Of course, they became understand the idea of the “Declaration” while working on the project and lamented that: “Oh, all humans are equal?!” I never specifically asked about their understanding on rights and they have never heard of the “Declaration”. Perhaps it all best summed up in one of the lines they sang: “Well, there’s never equality any time.” Perhaps they have felt something in the whole process. As one repeats one phrase again and again, it would press and influence his/her heart and mentality with something. This is the significance of the project from another perspective.

Luo Fei: Do you think they will take the “Declaration” back with them to their mountain areas in Northern Shaanxi?

Zhu Jiuyang: No one likes this at the grassroots level. They prefer those that are interesting and amusing. This is not fun.

declaration-of-the-blind02

Luo Fei: The “Declaration” is a text composed of a total of thirty provisions, while traditional Northern Shaanxi storytelling is primarily about contents that are telling stories and entertaining. Are there any challenges for the audiences?

Zhu Jiuyang: For one thing, subtitles were not offered to the audiences, so they did not really understand what was going on. And I did it on purpose. Because, to me, this was primarily a project, not a show, so work was very ironic. It was indeed difficult for the audience to sit in a factory building without heater and to finish watching it. Fortunately, it went rather well with the live performance!

Luo Fei: It is the interestingness and the seriousness of the “Declaration” that formed the sharp contrast, and that in turn rendered the irony to the “Declaration”, as the traditional “storytelling” actually talks about fictional stuff. Besides, as I was watching them performing, it seemed as if the leading Pipa performer was on a rock show.

Zhu Jiuyang: That’s right. In fact, I have always thought that the folk arts in Northwestern China have very strong characteristics of modern music, like the folk songs, storytelling in Northern Shaanxi, and even the Qinqiang (or Shaanxi opera). Their talking and singing are actually the direct expression of their heart.

Luo Fei: Compared with other works of yours, what are the major inspiration and challenges?

Zhu Jiuyang: Mainly the relationship between the stage, music and contemporary art. Both the stage and music are unfamiliar to me. I dragged the stage and music into my works, yet could not present them as a show, and it was a performance art after all. It’s rather difficult to keep the boundary, as it could easily become a show if you were not careful. Apparently it’s not bad to have made it like a show! Why can’t it be a piece of work at the same time?

zhujiuyang

Luo Fei: Looking at your personal creation course, you’ve been very good at introducing the scenarios and objects of your life experience, such as the flocks in your paintings and performances. For this time round, you introduced the blind storyteller team from Northern Shaanxi. From the perspective of Christian arts, you are expressive in your rendering of religious imageries. The paintings and on-site work – the “Lost Sheep” (2010), for example, obviously managed to introduce the Christian idea of “lost sheep” to the viewers. Likewise, the blind people have special connotation in the New Testament, suggesting the objects that are pitied and healed by Jesus. Jesus’s parable on the blind leading the blind was to teach the absurdity of the dead end of self-righteousness. The Blind Leading the Blind (1568), a famous distemper on linen canvas, by Pieter Bruegel the Elder was an excellent work on this theme.

Zhu Jiuyang: I think this is a special religious experience of mine that most of other artists lack. The voice of sheep in the “Lost Sheep” was a strong metaphor, pointing to a state of mankind. This time, the blind also meant to be metaphorical. According to the biblical narrative, we are all blind, thus cannot see the truth. So the metaphor of the blind is what I would like to address. This is the very thing I’ve been seeking, that is why my works do not specifically aim at any political view but humanity. It’s because in the problem of mankind, they are in nature political too. This will make the work more profound.

Luo Fei: That’s what brought the multiply levels of publicity in your works, being political or concerning public life for one thing and spiritual the other. The very act of the blind singing the Declaration on Human Rights has become an imagery of how the spiritually blind yearn for care and freedom. We know that the direct cause for people to draft the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights” was their reflection on the World War II. So, you made the “Declaration of the Blind” to discuss the reflection and longing for the beautiful existence of human being after men’s departure from God and escape from the Garden of Eden. Do I understand this right?

Zhu Jiuyang: In fact, the “Declaration of the Blind” was not just an expression of the reality, and I never give voice to any political situation. The truth is that I did it more from the perspective of humanity, while mirroring this problem somehow in some way. And ultimately it is an inquiry into human being itself. Aren’t we blind too? In today’s society, how far we are away from the right of true freedom. While the blind is singing to the sighted the rights and freedom of human being, isn’t it the same as enquiring our own hearts?

Luo Fei: Be it the live performance for the “Lost Sheep” or the “Declaration of the Blind”, you have introduced the most marginalized and strange objects to urban life, herds of nomadism for the former and folk storytelling from the mountainous region for the latter. It created a tremendous tension on the site, and formed a sort of confrontation. In the “Lost Sheep”, for example, the hanging sheep was unceasingly moaning and bleating, coupled with the tension between the wolf masked sheep and the rest of the flock. Those blind people performed in the “Declaration of the Blind” were a group of people from the bottom of the society with little education. With a group people joyously singing “Declaration of Human Rights”, just like the bleating sound of the hanging sheep, causing people to watch with embarrassment and anger. I think you have handled the absurdity of the rite well, and it’s like some of the scenes in your paintings. Whether it’s the bleating lamb hanged up in the air or the blind people singing the “Declaration on Human Rights”, they have been place at the center of a theater to be watched, or even be spitted on. It’s absurd and sacred at the same time, just like when Christ was crucified on the cross. It is not the strong that speaks out loud, but the weak that has been scorned at – the helpless lamb and the sightless and unprotected blind – this is what makes your works “absurd”. And its sanctity lies in their effort to give voice for others in spite of their suffering.

Zhu Jiuyang: When the artists look for resources and materials to apply in their creation, they are inseparable from his personal life experience. One winter evening many years ago, I was walking on the darkening road in the countryside. The air was mixed with the smell of soot, then I heard a still small voice: “Delicious konishii-” I saw a man, bending over, was dragging a cart while repeated breathing that one sentence. The small voice was cut to my heart. It occurred to me at the moment that the gentlest voice turned out to be most powerful one.

Luo Fei: Thank you for your sharing!

About “Declaration of the Blind”:
Artist: Zhu Jiuyang
Work: “Declaration of the Blind”
Formats: On-site Photograph, Video
Cooperating Artists: The Blind Storytelling Team from Yanchuan County, Northern Shaanxi
Performance Venues: Beijing Song Zhuang 99 Art Gallery, Original Four-Dimension Art Space
Props: Stage, white cloth, storyteller instruments
Content: “Universal Declaration of Human Rights”
Adaptation: Cao Baizhi
Length: About 40 minutes

罗菲:从“国际机场”到“家乡”(时玉玲)

罗菲采访和丽斌现场照片,和丽斌工作室,昆明,2014年

罗菲采访和丽斌现场照片,和丽斌工作室,昆明,2014年

罗菲:从“国际机场”到“家乡”

文/时玉玲

“日瑟浩奕”,纳西语,意为“时间很长,气很长”,是云南艺术家和丽斌个展的标题。对于一个“多数民族”——汉族人而言,我们不知用怎样的音调正确的发出这句纳西语,正如我们不懂它所传达的含义,以及我们无从了解它背后那个与我们平行的文化。所幸,我们看得懂艺术家绘画中的风景,我们能够感受到艺术家在绘画中所寄托的对内心体验观照与沉思。

在云南这个多民族文化融会的区域,许多艺术家的民族身份和记忆所面对的是一个汉文化的框架,正如中国文化面临的是一个全球化的时代。我们不能体会纳西语言的微妙,正如我们无法用另一种语言完全翻译出汉语言的魅力。但这不代表交流是无效的。正是交流打开了一扇通往外界的窗,让我们以更开阔的眼界重新审视自己的文化根源。正如策展人罗菲所比喻的,从“国际机场”回到“家乡”。

时玉玲:2008年,诺地卡曾经做过和丽斌的个展“行者日志”,当时是管郁达策的展,您来做学术主持。在六年之后,2014年诺地卡又做和丽斌的个展“日瑟浩奕”,您来策展。在这六年中,和丽斌在创作的思想上有哪些大的变化,又有什么是没有变的?

和丽斌作品《花园—七天行为计划》行为 2014年 北京798妙有艺术空间

和丽斌作品《花园—七天行为计划》行为 2014年 北京798妙有艺术空间

罗菲:“行者日志”个展主要是对和丽斌2006至2008年间的“荒原”系列的呈现,那个阶段是对他更早时期一些用综合材料制作的观念类作品的转向,从符号性、制作性、观念性的创作转向意象性、书写性和表现性的创作。那个阶段的作品和丽斌往往把自己在自然中独处的体验以表现主义手法描绘出来,一批冷峻的黑白色调的荒原风景,和丽斌把那个阶段的作品当做认识自我的开始。是的,他把艺术当作认识自我的途径。

2008年个展后,和丽斌更深地进入到风景与自我的关系中,或者说完全打开了对自我状态的叙述。画面中普遍有一个小人物的出现,这个人总是追随着太阳,攀爬在山间,漫步在山花烂漫处。他把这些画作分别命名为“荒原”、“逐日”和“幻灭”系列,它们讲述着和丽斌个人的心灵史。我理解那些作品也表现了人的三种存在状态和场景:追寻—荒原,希望—逐日,绝望—幻灭。在这些画作中他开始大量使用刺激的红色、蓝色,具有强烈视觉冲击感。在这六年里和丽斌还同时创作了大量在自然环境中的行为艺术,并且在创作绘画或行为的过程中还写诗。

当我把和丽斌自2006年以来的油画、诗歌、行为艺术放在一起反复观看,它们更像一部部自传体电影的分镜头剧本。这些片段构成了一部宏大的有关自我追寻与撤离的心灵叙事,令人炫目。它时而“向前,奔跑,冲刺,从自己的影子里撕裂、挣脱出去”,时而“安眠,在水一方”,而最终或许只是“消失在飞扬的尘埃里”。和丽斌的艺术,可以说是一部带着“夸父逐日”的理想主义色彩,讲述我们这个时代的“少年派”们在大地上奇幻漂泊的心灵史,它震撼人心,浪漫迷人,诡异又不安。

2014年7月TCG诺地卡画廊展出艺术家薛滔个展“非常日常·贰”

2014年7月TCG诺地卡画廊展出艺术家薛滔个展“非常日常·贰”

时玉玲:和丽斌不仅是一位艺术家,他本身也是策展人,也做了许多艺术理论方面的研究。对于这个个展览他本身可能就会从艺术家和策展人的两个角度来思考,你与和丽斌在这个展览上的角色分工是如何实现的?会不会有冲突的地方,是怎么协调的?

罗菲:对,和丽斌是一位很有激情也很执著的艺术家,同时也是一位有行动力的策展人,他对自己的展览甚至每一个细节都有许多设想。我其实更像是他的陪伴者,我对他的艺术历程也非常熟悉,他的工作室就在我工作画廊的楼上,因此我们常常在一起看作品,讨论问题。我们之间的合作一直都比较默契,但也有意见不一致的地方,比如这次布展,由于展厅条件的限制和对他作品展示方面理解上的差异,产生过一些争执,但最终我选择尊重他的决定,当然,他也考虑了我的意见,双方都做了一定调整。他在对待自己作品如何“真诚地”向观众“表白”方面,是相当在意的。这也是他的艺术感人之处,人们总是能从他的画作中看到那个固执己见的浪漫的身影。

我在这次展览中的角色主要是挖掘和丽斌这位艺术家的成长史、心灵史,这也是他艺术的内核。我们连续做了两天的对话,从对话中我理解到,他不是为了艺术而艺术,是为了心灵而艺术。这种心灵反馈引发的艺术创作及其风格转向,在云南许多艺术家身上都比较突出,另一位更典型的是我们熟悉的毛旭辉老师。另一方面,和丽斌作为本土重要的艺术家,活跃的策展人,我也想借此次展览激发其他艺术家共同来讨论风景、自我还有地域性的问题,我理解这是云南艺术界近些年来比较突出的问题,因此我们也邀请了査常平老师来做学术主持,推动相互之间思想的碰撞。

瑞典艺术家奥斯卡·弗贝肯(Oscar Furbacken)的微型青铜雕塑 2013年 TCG诺地卡画廊

瑞典艺术家奥斯卡·弗贝肯(Oscar Furbacken)的微型青铜雕塑 2013年 TCG诺地卡画廊

时玉玲:云南历来有风景画的传统,不管是以风景为内心关照的表达,还是在某一个特殊时期作为一种艺术的策略。但是在今天新媒体热、观念艺术泛滥的当下,再谈风景画会不会被质疑?这个话题是否只能在特定的地域文化中生效?

罗菲:是的,自八五时期毛旭辉、张晓刚、叶永青等艺术家以田园风景和个人生活空间来表达内心体验的艺术以来,它就形成了云南式的现代主义精神文脉和表述模式,使得这里的艺术家普遍表现出对个人内心经验的关照,其中内心独白式的表达尤其突出,它往往又借助于描绘乡土风景和私生活表现出来。这种内心关照在其中一些艺术家身上就成为了对个人心灵史的书写,比如在毛旭辉、孙国娟等较早一代艺术家身上,你能从他们的艺术历程中明显看到心灵反馈运动和个人生活变迁的痕迹。在另一些艺术家身上,也有把个人心灵史转化为公共心灵史,比如心灵在公共记忆、国际冲突、消费文化里的反应与表述,这方面比较典型的是雷燕的创作。总体而言,云南艺术家们内心关照的艺术都是基于经验的关照,还没有出现先验的精神性关照,也就无法面对人性的基本问题,比如人的罪性,因此他们的表达主要集中在日常生活中的诗意与虚无。

绝大多数风景艺术家对“风景”(作为自然的风景)的兴趣可能远大于对艺术的兴趣,在精神层面这类作品主要延续着八十年代以来的乡土情结。事实上,风景并非一个对象化的画面,或者只是作为自然的风景,也是人类所处的场域和关系,这个场域及其关系包括了人与物质、生态、文化、政治、时间和语言等方面的关系,艺术家如何在这个关系中重新确立艺术表达与体验的方式,发现那些被隐藏的问题,仍然值得我们反思并付诸行动。

和丽斌的绘画,不只是风景艺术,也是风景与自我的关系,更深层面它是自我与真我的关系。我更倾向于把这些画和他的行为、诗歌放在“个人心灵史”这样一个框架里来理解。

2014年3月挪威行为艺术之父赫尔马·弗雷德里克森的行为表演“艺术真容易”,TCG诺地卡画廊

2014年3月挪威行为艺术之父赫尔马·弗雷德里克森的行为表演“艺术真容易”,TCG诺地卡画廊

时玉玲:这次的展览主题“日瑟浩奕”乍看之下让人颇为费解,后来看到报道才知道是一句“纳西语”,是和丽斌自己民族的语言。为什么会选择用一句纳西语来做展览主题,是想表达艺术家对于自己的民族的传统文化的一种态度吗?由此延生出一个老生常谈却一直没有被很好地回答的问题,在全球化时代,怎样保持自己的传统文化?

罗菲:是的,这是艺术家对待自己文化的态度。少数民族文化的讨论在中国当代艺术界尚没有被真正开启。对“大多数”人而言,这种关于“少数人”的讨论的价值还没有被看到。即便在云南,许多当代艺术家身上其实都有他们的民族身份和记忆,但这同样是被忽略的。

当代艺术一方面需要艺术家在个体上觉醒,自由表达;另一方面艺术家也需要把人们带入具体的文化政治领域。艺术实践如何从“国际机场”进入“家乡”,或者说,如何把“家乡”与“国际机场”连结并相互转化,这里有很大的讨论和实践空间,因为艺术家总是需要重新提出那些被忽略了的价值和生活方式。

艺术生成价值,这是艺术与生活模糊界限之后的一项重要功用。在那些被忽略了的价值与关系中,这种实验需要被充分开启,使我们生活的场域和特定文化成为引发共振的器皿和现场,让那些所谓的“少数民族”的“静默区”发出自己的声音。这方面,云南的艺术家其实有较大的实验空间。在和丽斌及其他云南艺术家的创作里,这种尝试也才刚刚开始。

苏亚碧,纸本彩铅、丙烯、炭笔,尺寸:75×101cm,根据荷兰诗人:戴尔波克(荷兰),诗歌:《她拎着一杯水上楼____给w》(多重编译 中国荷兰诗歌与艺术交流项目)

苏亚碧,纸本彩铅、丙烯、炭笔,尺寸:75×101cm,根据荷兰诗人:戴尔波克(荷兰),诗歌:《她拎着一杯水上楼____给w》(多重编译 中国荷兰诗歌与艺术交流项目)

时玉玲:像许多艺术城市一样,云南在2000年以后也经历了一个艺术中心的转移,曾经一度很活跃的艺术家分散到北京、上海等寻找更多的机会。杭州、成都等都经历过这样的一个转变。似乎艺术的中心只有北京和上海。我想有一个很重要的原因就是这些大城市提供了更加国际化的舞台。但是这几年,似乎这种现象有所改变,许多城市开始建立与国外的艺术交流,曾经去北京、上海的艺术家也回归到原先的城市,似乎“各自为营”的艺术格局慢慢形成。我知道TCG诺地卡每年都有一些和北欧的交流项目。这些交流对云南的艺术生态产生了怎样的影响呢?TCG对云南的艺术家而言有怎样的意义?

罗菲:诺地卡作为云南乃至中国最早的民间的国际文化中心之一,在本土当代艺术领域起到了十分重要的作用,它是一扇通往外界的窗户,连接不同文化的桥梁,包括我在内的许多学生、青年艺术家、策展人都是从这里成长起来的。
国际交流对于中国的艺术家而言十分重要,它是扩展眼界、重建经验与多元价值,建立民间社会的重要方式。诺地卡以及后来的丽江工作室、苔画廊等艺术机构引进的国际项目都使得国际交流在云南变得常态化,这里的许多艺术家积累了许多国际协作经验,也使得在以风景和内心关照为主的架上绘画以外,有了其他艺术实践与观念,比如行为、装置、特定场域艺术、社群艺术等。这种常态化国际交流、互访与合作有助于改变人们对他者和自己概念化的认识。

资佰个展“景观制造”展览作品《山高人为峰》 240x20cm (数字图片)TCG诺地卡画廊 2013

资佰个展“景观制造”展览作品《山高人为峰》 240x20cm (数字图片)TCG诺地卡画廊 2013

时玉玲:您不仅是策展人,还是机构的负责人,本身也是艺术家,在读了你的书之后,我发现在这些表面的身份之下,你其实更像是一个云南当代文化的研究者、推动者,去关注本地的艺术生态的生成,关注年轻艺术家的成长,努力搭建一个交流的平台。今天对于一个策展人的要求已经不仅仅是做好一个展览,你认为今天这个时代对策展人提出了怎样的要求?是否应该承担更多的文化推广的责任?

罗菲:正如今天的艺术家也不能只局限于思考画布上的事情一样,策展人更需要多方面的能力与眼光。尤其在云南这样的地方,很多角色和功能其实比较模糊,就更需要培养艺术工作者有全方位的眼光和行动力,需要更多的人参与到文化生态的建立中。正如前面提到,当代艺术是要生成一种价值,这种有待生成的价值应该在文化和生活的方方面面发生着,生活方式、态度、信念、教育、展览、交流、跨文化对话、协作、语言、写作、批评、收藏……这种转变要求年青一代文化艺术工作者具备跨界实践的热情,对文化生活的各个方面保持敏锐。

本文刊于《上层》杂志2015年第5期