策展人樊林访谈:一个在场者的自我调适

樊林《毛,就是我》,2010年9月,广州

樊林《毛,就是我》,2010年9月,广州

策展人樊林访谈:一个在场者的自我调适

本文刊于《上层》杂志2015年第十月刊

文/罗菲

时间:2015年8月16日晚

地点:澳大利亚昆纳纳热(Kununnura)

樊林:策展人、广州美术学院西方美术史教授

按:我和樊林2015年8月受邀参加中国策展人澳洲北部考察活动,实地考察澳洲的土著艺术及其发展。我们一行五人,在荒野连续露营6天之后,到达一座小城昆纳纳热,回到有电和网络的世界,不得不面对我们自身经验内部的文化震荡。于是有机会我们可以坐下来聊聊天,在澳洲谈论中国的当代艺术。从樊林的叙述中我们可以了解到广州地区的艺术状况,她作为策展人自己的思考和实践,以及作为研究者对西方和历史的再认识。

一、广州当代艺术状况

罗菲:难得有机会与樊林老师交流,也让我有机会了解到广州的艺术艺术状况和你的一些工作。当代艺术在中国的地理版图上其实有很多板块,也有很多丰富的现场,你作为一位过去二十年来一直观察并参与的人不断经历这些改变。想听听樊老师你是如何进入中国当代艺术现场的,先介绍下你的情况吧。

樊林:我是90年代初到广州美术学院,跟随迟轲先生学习西方美术史,我自认为这二十五年来我基本在场,是中国当代艺术的一个亲历者,但这种在场又和很多男性批评家那种主动卷入或制造艺术事件的在场有所不同。

90年到93年读西方艺术史的研究生,之后我开始教书,我发现我们之前的知识准备和眼力都很难去主动提出什么问题。比如做西方艺术史的研究,其实很多知识的基本对接都没有建立好,这让人产生很大的挫败感,于是我跟着邵宏开始翻译迈耶的“美术术语和技法词典”。邵宏教授从那时开始做了很多西方艺术史的翻译工作。如果形而下我们都没有建立,其实是没有办法建立当代艺术形而上的思考。

广州其实不大,大部分事件你是可以了解的,比如90年代初徐坦他们“大尾象”做的几次活动;陈侗开始了博尔赫斯书店的营运;皮道坚老师、黄专老师、杨国辛老师、李邦耀老师他们从武汉南下到了华师,大部分后来回忆中有趣的事情,当时很平静地在他们的坚持中展开。因此华师和广美基本上是我的两个重要的田野。他们的创作、生存状态是观察了解的对象。但在2008年之前,我只以艺术评论的方式写过些小文,广州的画廊业2004、2005年有些发展,2000年前后笔组画廊开始营业,在广东省美术馆里面,我和画廊主姚佳他们一起做了些事情,她做了很多当代绘画的展览,包括周春芽的展览。过程中发现画廊可以实现一些我在课堂讲到的但是解决不了的问题。把思考和观察结合在一起,算是有了实践的机会。当时系里有些学生也是通过在笔组实习,有了实操的经验。2008年我第一次在如意画廊做展览,题为“向诺克林致敬”,是一个女性艺术群展,从那时起大约做了近50场展览,有大型的群展也有小计划或个展。我庆幸我一直在场,又没有被卷入漩涡的中心。这可能帮助我保持一定的客观性吧,因为当你在中心,你不得不权衡很多方面的利益。

罗菲:你认为广州和国内其他地方有没有什么不同的地方?

樊林:这个问题最近一年多好像经常被提到。去北京参加活动感觉很明显,在广州我们对话语权的兴趣好像没有那么强烈。尽管之前大家仿佛有个设定,广州作为改革开放前沿,接近港澳台,但从艺术的形态,艺术家自在自为的发展来讲,其实和我们所处的前沿地域没有关系。广州是一个生活很实在、很舒适的地方,可能有利也可能让人松懈。广州好像也没有太多核心人物,拉一个山头,树一个旗帜,然后围绕他们来展开艺术的布局。广州的艺术家都比较个人化,不像有的地域,一个老师的风格可能影响很多年轻人,当然年轻人在跟随的过程中也会慢慢发展出自己的东西。我觉得广州有点像澳洲雨季的感觉,丛林密布,但灌木状态的太多了,大树少了一点。当然我并不认为我们一定要出一些领军人物,但是这样也容易让我们沉迷在自己的语境里,互相之间真正的学术的讨论会少一些,影响我们整体往前走。

罗菲:广州作为中国重要的商业中心,对艺术市场有怎样的影响?

樊林:其实广州当代艺术的买卖并不像我们想象的那么好。广州的藏家对中国当代艺术的收藏也不在广州进行,广州的商业模式是拿货、走量,从纺织品到小的电子产品。这种形态是否会影响我们艺术家作品的完成度呢,这个完成度尤其包括了对思想含量的向往,这个我还不大敢下结论。广州做当代艺术比较成熟的就是维他命空间,他们的运作方式好像与本土的买卖没有很深的关联。

徐坦,《Dream Pigs》

徐坦,《Dream Pigs》

二、作为策展人的思考和行动

罗菲:在策展方面,你有没有自己特别关注的领域和理论框架,对哪种现象特别关注?

樊林:西方的叙事理论对我影响很深,遇到图像的时候,我希望在艺术家身上看到不同的图像叙事的特殊性。尽管每个艺术家的呈现方式不同,但研究他们的学术背景,受训练的方式,包括他们的老师,会发现他们之间有隐约的结构,有传承,我也会把这个结构和叙事结合在一起。我个人比较关注那些有自己生活经历的艺术家,他们通过自己现实层面的体验去重新组织叙事方式。比如我观察到一位从央美版画毕业的博士叫黄洋,广美附中后去了央美。他是一位研究型的版画家,博士论文写的是李桦。他出生于很有传统文化的潮汕地区,他对传统图式、纹样在当代现实社会当中的运用、扩散和影响很有研究。我希望找到那种自己对生活有体验,有自己切入的方式,有自己的语言组织,有叙事。这种类型一定是和它的图像在一起的。

我做过一个陈侗的计划,题为“毛就是我”,这个题目是他起的,我个人有很多共同的关于政治和历史的记忆,是可以和陈侗的想法进行对照着来看,比如童年我们接受的教育,阅读的经历,放在一起展开的讨论很有趣。记得我们做了一次针对学生的研讨会,一个学生说,我以为你们是说“毛发,就是我”。我才意识到一个词的意味因为这二十年的隔阂就相差那么远。很多时候艺术还是要通过图像来实现一些影响。我对有自己叙事方式的同龄人会更感兴趣一些。

罗菲:作为策展人你在本地寻求支持是越来越容易还是越来越富有挑战?

樊林:随着我的工作经验和完成度的积累和成熟,要找画廊合作展览可能是没有太大问题的,没人会怀疑我对艺术家的了解和展场的控制能力。前年做过邓箭今老师的个展“他是我们的深渊”,展场的效果与展开的关于作品的讨论都非常好。但我现在是越做越少了,尤其是一些描述状态和现象的展览很少了,更想多做提问的展览。因为那种只是呈现状态的展览无论对于收藏和我们对于当代艺术的讨论都没有太多好处。从这个角度讲,又变得越来越难了,因为画廊会有自己的生存考虑。只要事情不是更容易还是更难,那么现实就变得更有趣了。

罗菲:策展有时被当做对批评的实践,一种实践性批评或称批评性策展,我们对艺术的反思不只是以文本的方式呈现,而是一个行动的框架,展览就是这样一个框架。正如你刚才提到更愿意做提问的展览,有没有近期的例子?

樊林:近期有一个经历,尽管前期我没有过多的参与。我们是和上海的全摄影画廊合作,介绍美国摄影家乔-彼得·威金(Joel Peter Witkin),他的展览已经在上海全摄影和南京的南艺美术馆做过了。这批作品并不是他最新的作品,却是摄影史上的重要作品。我希望能够做些与艺术史上重要的时间点相关联的事情。但没想到引入广州那么艰难。有学术性官方美术馆说,对不起,这个一定通不过审查。也有商业画廊认为自身销售没法配合,因为投入比较大。还有画廊签了合同,十天后告诉我不能做了,可能他们觉得风水不对。最后很高兴,在东莞的一家民营美术馆,21空间美术馆落脚。我们来澳洲之前刚刚开幕,做了嘉宾对话,观众的参与程度也不错。

罗菲:你通过一个展览来测试这座城市的开放程度是否真的走在了最前沿,它是否真的那么包容。

樊林:对,某种程度上可以这么看。后来研讨会上有人提出这批作品太早了,关于他的摄影史也已经过去了,没有像我对这批作品那样热诚。但我觉得如果我们的观众对艺术史线索不是那么清晰的话,我们来谈后现代、当代都是空谈。所有的趣味问题,最后就落实到艺术教育,我们的摄影爱好者如果能明白自摄影1839年发明以来是如何产生,如何制作,它和绘画有什么冲突,又如何与绘画在图像上共谋来改造这个世界的图像,如果爱好者能到这一步,我们来谈当代艺术才有希望。否则一定只是个宏愿而已。

罗菲:我知道好些策展人或多或少会做艺术家的档案库,无论是物理的一个档案还是电子档案,你会有意识做这个事情吗?

樊林:为我了解、熟悉的艺术家做文件夹,包括简历、作品。年轻的艺术家会不断给我发他们最新的资料,同龄的我会留一些物料,比如某人什么时候写的纸条,尤其是数字时代之前的照片。我还会记一些笔记,比如我记得读书的时候徐坦很喜欢聊维特根斯坦,后来你发现徐坦整个系统受维特根斯坦影响是很大的,关于词语、关于游戏的概念。我也会留意整个生态不同的种类,其中一直保持创作的人。在九十年代还有好些没有被关注的艺术家,我不认为有多少男性批评家会在意那些“草”,那么我们把他们梳理一下勾勒出来是不是对未来有一个交待?

罗菲:为什么你会说男性批评家不会在意?

樊林:因为我所接触到的男性批评家的工作状态是比较留意成熟的艺术家。简单一点看,艺术家成熟意味着你成熟,艺术家成功意味着你成功。但有一些艺术家努力了一辈子,他的风格可能不足以到一个台阶,但他一直以来的努力总有一些方面是意思的,某些方面也是值得被书写的。

罗菲:你不断提到对男性批评家的批评,你是站在女性主义立场吗?

樊林:很明确的一点,是女性,但不是主义。教师和策展人两个身份,使我自己很明确这一点。“八五”以来批评家常常要承担哲学家的角色,人们会认为女性的感受比较形而下。其实有些时候我们的性别是可以被抽离的,对作品的解读我们在情感和心理的投入可能是不一样的,但没必要紧扣性别的外衣。我最初做“向诺克林致敬”是个女性艺术家联展展,我告诉艺术家们,你们大部分都不是女性主义者。我们需要一个去标签的过程。性别也会影响到人们对你的判断和工作方式,比如开幕以后男人们会去喝酒,我会告诉大家我要回去给孩子做饭。事实是思辨和争论也可以很愉悦。

罗菲:你能举出几位自己推崇的艺术家吗?

樊林:仅仅谈本土,徐坦的工作方式我很欣赏,他维持一个很基本的生活,主要专注在他的思考里。段建宇总是能在绘画中融入有趣的文学性,她的感受很尖锐。还有陈侗,他作为独立出版人和机构的主持,很不容易地维持着一个高品质的机构。大家在一个城市,但相互之间保持极大的差异。

段建宇,《杀 杀 杀马特4》,140X180cm 布面油画,2014

段建宇,《杀 杀 杀马特4》,140X180cm 布面油画,2014

三、一个被不断认识的西方世界

罗菲:你这些年在世界各地游走、访学和考察,你在其他地方不断积累的经验和知识如何影响到你的教学?

樊林:这个问题很有趣,这也是我为什么不舍得放弃这份教职。我在大约三十岁的时候就意识到一个重要问题,在中国研究西方美术史大概是不可为之事。

罗菲:为什么?

樊林:文化语境隔得太远。比如英文,我们说英文是知识分子的普通话,但每个西方学者使用的英文是有它的背景,他所涉及的整个的教育使然。去年我在海德堡大学东亚艺术史系混图书馆,看雷德侯的《万物》,他是用英文写,而不是德文。也许正是因为用德文写这个话题比英文的传播力度要弱。我们读贡布里希的《艺术的故事》都能读懂,但如果仔细读注解的话,你会发现我们和那个语境还是非常脱节。沈语冰说如果要成为优秀的西方艺术史研究者,你应该读一个国际高中,本科读中文,研究生和博士阶段读美术史。你看好些国内的学者朱青生老师、曹意强老师他们基本都有从西方回来的经验。我们今天讨论的西方概念是一个太大,做研究的基本训练对于我还是有很严重的缺陷。

罗菲:你作为西方美术史的教授,你今天如何来定义西方的概念?

樊林:作为西方艺术史专业的人,可能我们还局限在既定的西方世界中,因为有策展人身份,我们可以来澳洲,看到一个不一样的西方。那问题就来了,对土著的研究放在怎样的西方框架里?因为我们的艺术史是放在欧洲精英文化的框架里的。西方美术史因此成为一个极富智力挑战的游戏,任何一个词语的背后都有它的来世和今生。

罗菲:对,澳洲因为白人的介入,它在文化上整体是西方的,是被西化的澳洲,这也是以欧洲为中心的西方文化在20世纪不断扩展的结果,说明西方本身是一个不断生成和扩张的概念,却也是有选择性的,比如我们关于西方美术史的叙述是没有包括澳洲土著艺术的。那么西方美术史的提法是否本身就有问题?

樊林:2006年在山东开过一个全国的会,讨论的问题之一,是要不要修正为世界美术史。世界美术史的概念在美国的大学都用。比如《詹森美术史》,它的大洋洲部分是很丰富的,他要求所有读这个书的人都要建立一个宏大的全球概念。但是我们刻意屏蔽掉了我们不需要的部分,是吧?

罗菲:是的,我们说的西方往往是指那个欧洲中心主义的西方,是集合了宪政、新教价值观、自由市场和个人主义为核心理念的现代性价值体系。

樊林:欧洲中心主义实际上今天应该引起我们反感和反思了。去年在德国,强烈地感受到最重要的博物馆的收藏都体现出强权的一面,那些展品都是从它们自身原来的语境中抽离出来被摆在那里的,它的所有叙事都是以自我为中心来展开的。

罗菲:需要让艺术品还原到它原初的社会形态和语境。正如这次我们到澳洲,要在灌木丛里支帐篷,一个岩壁一个岩壁地看,和原住民见面,听他们讲故事,这样才能体会他们的艺术。否则在博物馆看那些图案,就可能是误读,你会觉得土著的那些作品很同质化,会按抽象艺术和个人风格的框架来理解它,但澳洲土著的那些图案是在讲故事,传承不同地区不同家族的故事,而不是在寻求形而上的表达。

樊林:研究历史的时候总会不断发现新的史料,但如何进入新的史料,其实是需要不断修正自己的史观。比如贡布里希有很完整的关于艺术史的理解,但如果只按他的理解来理解我们所看到的一切,还是有很多是解读不了的。我觉得有趣的是,在成长中不断发现自己的局限性,我的学问越来越没法帮助我解读这些新的现象,我能告诉学生的是能够用什么角度去理解这些新的现象。

罗菲:这次澳洲之行对你来说最大的收获是什么?

樊林:还是不敢轻易下结论。去年来澳洲的时候策展人琼·孟丁(Djon Mundine)告诉我这些画面上的点是天上的云,风过来,它们就成了雨水,成了土里的沙。我们能做的事就是到那个文化系统里去学,去感受它所指引你的方式,而不是最终要求一个“同”,这个“同”一定是求不到的。

常雄访谈:云上的梦境

changxiong3

常雄访谈:云上的梦境

文:罗菲

按:常雄是一位来自云南大理彝族寨子的艺术家,他主要在布面和纸本上从事油画或丙烯绘画,他的绘画有好些不同的面貌,有时给人一种漫游于超现实云端的画面感,有时又把咄咄逼人的生死场景再现,有时给人一种微观的诗意画面。他的绘画率真、爽快、直接,就像他整个人一样。常雄将于2015年9月11日在昆明蓝谷存在艺术空间举办他的个展。本文是基于两次造访他工作室所做的访谈整理而成,我们从中可以了解到艺术家常雄的个人成长经历和他在艺术上的独特理解。

2014年1月23日下午、2015年7月29日下午
常雄工作室,昆明明日城市

《在云上》布面油画130X150CM 2015

《在云上》布面油画130X150CM 2015

1.个人成长经历

罗菲:从自我介绍开始今天的访谈吧。

常雄:我1984年出生在大理漾濞县石竹村的一个彝族寨子里。我有两个妹妹。不到一周岁,我第一次与死亡擦肩而过,听说那时我脖子上长硬头疮,发炎后咽喉到脖子右边直接穿了洞,当时家里很贫穷,不能去医院,家人都觉得只是时间问题,活不了多久。但我母亲不忍苍蝇在伤口里爬来爬去,下蛋生蛆,为了避免增加我的痛苦,她用鸡毛蘸着核桃油小心的穿过伤口,轻轻的给伤口四周抹油,可能我太小,感觉不到痛,意识里只觉得有火一直在烧我的脖子。她的行为给伤口起了消炎作用,我幸免了。
也是在同年,我又经受了比那更遭的意外,父母至今都不愿提及,那是他们的阴影,他们的痛。一次偶然,听我叔叔轻描淡写说起过,他说那是我又一次接近死亡,在那一年多里,我没日没夜地哭嚎,把整家人的心都哭碎了。母亲提起这段日子总会流泪,我们姊妹再也不问过去的事。
以后稍长,记忆深刻的是放牛,还有做农活和上学。小时候我怕羞,很腼腆很孤僻,喜欢独处。我接触最多的是父亲和他的徒弟们。父亲是个集木匠、石匠、铁匠、泥水匠于一身的手艺人,就是当地人说的吃百家饭的人,别人需要什么他们都能做,幼年时期随他四处奔走,学会做很多事情,也有机会看到民间各种器具,各样精美雕饰。我把我喜欢的那些形象刻画到石头、木板、墙体以及土坯等能让我折腾的地方,也会给他们画图样,或跟着他们打石头,雕刻。这样的一些经历,培养了我对画画、雕刻和建筑的兴趣及对美好事物的爱,扎实了我的好奇心,为现在成为游子奠定了基础,铺开了路。

罗菲:你父亲给了你最初关于艺术这门手艺的启蒙,你自己是怎么开始学艺术的?

常雄:我在大理中等师范学校学习,在那里学幼儿美术,一共学了三年。当时国画的课程比较多,篆刻、书法、工笔、写意都教。我自己特别喜欢写意。毕业后一年我到昆明参加了艺术考试。

《怠》纸面油画 27x30cm 2008

《怠》纸面油画 27x30cm 2008

罗菲:现在看你许多画里都有借鉴国画的技法。

常雄:我就是喜欢国画山水中庞大辽远的气势,水墨酣畅淋漓的韵味。它有接近自然、人心和贴切生活的东西。

罗菲:你刚才提到自己是游子,你有时会沿路搭车去中国西北部游历,你看到了怎样的中国?

常雄:在游走的过程中我看到农村都很淳朴和真诚,虽然经济上看起来比较贫乏,但比起很多城里人更安定,内心更平和。我们这一代农村孩子和城里孩子很不一样,我自己觉得能吃饱穿暖,做自己喜欢的事就很踏实了。虽然现在也有很多农村人往城市走,城市人也会去农村看可开发的东西,但是在我看来,这不是开发而是掠夺。

罗菲:这也导致农村的人际关系发生变化是吗?比如在你家乡。

常雄:是,现在很多人都会向经济看齐,哪怕是栽一颗树都会去争夺地方,互不相让。但有的地方还是不一样,人们很单纯,很乐意去帮助别人,在西藏我就感触特别深。

罗菲:你在路上搭车容易得到信任吗?

常雄:搭上我的人都比较信任我吧,在交谈中他们知道我是少数民族之后会问很多关于少数民族的问题。比如我们民族的性格怎么样,生活是什么样,然后大家就渐渐融洽了,路上也很放松。

《围观》纸面油彩 26X40CM 2011

《围观》纸面油彩 26X40CM 2011

2.两个世界

罗菲:在你的作品中我注意到有几个主要对象,人、动物和丛林,都是野生状态。无论是人还是动物,他们看上去都比较孤独,一种游离的状态,这是在表达你和家乡或者说世界的某种关系吗?

常雄:可能我的作品会有意无意的透露这种信息,但这不是我本身的出发点。我认为一切存在的生命,它们本身既是独立的,又是有关联的,是一种微妙的、若即若离的关系。

罗菲:你的画面中有两个世界,它们同时在发生着什么。比如这张作品是一群人在山脚下,山的外面是另一个城市或者村落。你好像在暗示它们之间有潜在的关系。

常雄:就像今天我们在聊天一样,在我们看来,这个事情很有意义,但是也许在这个时间段的另一群人看来,这个事情对他们毫无意义。比如说人类和蚂蚁,他们各忙各的事情,看上去彼此毫无关系却又息息相关,有时候我觉得世界是混沌在一起的,只是我们更多时候习惯用一个维度去看多维世界。有的时候觉得自己应该跳出习惯性的维度来审视世界,这么想了,就画了这种画面。

3.云上的梦境

罗菲:你这一组“在云上”这个系列里云的形象最初是怎么来的?

常雄:小时候我们那里环境比现在好,下雨之后云层就会出现在眼前,我就想,要是能把牲口赶上去就好了。小时候经常有这种幻想,于是就把小时候的幻想和现实画进画面。这种场景在以前的生活中太常见了。

罗菲:你小时候家乡的物资都是靠马帮和牛是吗?

常雄:是的,那时没有公路,只有崎岖的乡村土路。骡子是最好的运输工具,牛是最好的劳作工具,所以我们自己是不杀牛吃的。

《云上马帮-1》180X200CM 布面油画 2009

《云上马帮-1》180X200CM 布面油画 2009

罗菲:在我整理你作品的关键词中,有一个是“梦境”。你的作品中有一种恍若隔世的梦境感,它不是浪漫的童话书写,而是来自切身的农耕记忆。

常雄:对,这和生活有关。耕地我也会,几乎农村里所有的活计我都会。从播种到收成,所有的过程我都会,甚至篾匠我也会。

罗菲:什么是篾匠?

常雄:就是用竹子编一些器具,比如簸箕、背篮等。所以这些都是和我的生活有直接关系的东西。有时候我觉得我的那些生活经历就像梦一样的,它们已经变成回忆,和现在的生活越来越远了。

罗菲:画面中的动物好像是背井离乡,去往一个不明确的远方。

常雄:我觉得人在城市或农村应该可进可退,游刃有余,而不是对立的关系,关键是我们自己怎么更和谐,更平衡地去生活。

罗菲:你的画面中黑色用的比较多,这和彝族文化有关系吗?

常雄:黑色在彝族传统里是男性的主要颜色,女性用的颜色要鲜嫩些,比较多样。

罗菲:你自己怎么评价你的艺术?

常雄:我感觉就像是自己和自己的对话,有点像玩的一种状态,可以提供我快乐和思考。画画就是消磨时间,充实日子,也是一个自言自语的过程,作品只是宣泄的产物。

《云上马帮-2》180X200CM 布面油画 2009

《云上马帮-2》180X200CM 布面油画 2009

当代昆明:独立策展人罗菲谈中国西南地区艺术状况

LUOFEI-portrait-WEB_0

当代昆明:独立策展人罗菲谈中国西南地区艺术状况

作者:创意亚洲
日期:2015年8月7日

来自重庆的艺术家、作家、独立策展人罗菲已经在中国西南的另一座城市昆明定居了十五年,他与云南的艺术机构如TCG诺地卡和丽江工作室都有过合作。罗菲发起策划过一系列与欧洲的机构和艺术家有关的国际项目和驻地计划,他专注于发展本地创意群体与各地的联系与协作。

本月,罗菲将造访澳大利亚最北部地带,参与由澳大利亚文化交流项目和澳大利亚驻华使馆发起的“中国策展人达尔文至布鲁密沿途考察项目”。在罗菲出发之前,他与《创意亚洲》分享了为何昆明作为亚洲地区重要的当代艺术中心却鲜为人所知,也谈到了澳大利亚与中国云南地区将来合作的潜在可能。

创意亚洲:昆明的艺术现场是怎样的?和你的家乡四川相比如何?和北京上海相比呢?

罗菲:昆明在中国现代艺术发展历程中具有重要位置,它在上世纪八十年代曾经是中国现代艺术 “八五思潮”的重要发源地之一,这里诞生了中国最早的一代现代主义艺术家和群体实验。九十年代,这里也活跃着一拨从事先锋艺术的重要艺术家,如唐志冈、刘建华、何云昌、曾晓峰、李季等。2001年后,这座城市有了由艺术家发起的中国最早的艺术社区创库,当代艺术从地下走向地上,与城市生活融为一体,这也激发了本地更多的艺术社区。今天,年轻一代艺术家和策展人处于更具体的全球化处境中,他们不时在欧洲、北京、上海、昆明等多地工作和生活。和四川、北京或上海相比,昆明的艺术现场显得更随性和分散,这里的艺术家对自然和内心表现出更大的自觉与关注。

创意亚洲:你如何看待过去这些年本地的艺术发展状况?

罗菲:2008年后中国的当代艺术实践变得更常态化、多样化,不像之前发生的那些明显的“宏大叙事”和历史性转折,更多来自民间的微变。和其他城市一样,它一方面在寻求政府的支持,比如建立文化产业园。另一方面民间商业力量和创意文化也在改造它,人们正在探索如何介入传统的先锋艺术、实验艺术领域,艺术圈也在摸索如何与社会更好地合作,而非对抗。和90年代反绘画的先锋精神相比,今天的大部分艺术家重返绘画,尤其是风景绘画,这也反映出艺术界在文化态度上的转变。和活跃的艺术实践相比,这里的艺术教育、研究、批评、媒体和市场等方面的发展仍有很大空间。近些年具有复合型身份的策展人在艺术圈扮演着重要角色,他们努力推动着本地当代艺术的发展。同时,这些年昆明一直都有一些精彩的国际交流项目,它们为当地人了解世界各地的情况提供了鲜活的机会。

创意亚洲:昆明乃至在中国最重要的当代艺术机构有哪些?

罗菲:就我了解的,昆明/云南主要有苔画廊、TCG诺地卡文化中心和丽江工作室,成都有千高原、A4、蓝顶和成都当代美术馆,重庆有器空间,广州有维他命空间,北京、上海当然有更多活跃的当代艺术机构。

昆明创库、TCG诺地卡入口

昆明创库、TCG诺地卡入口

创意亚洲:你是如何成为一名独立策展人的?介绍下你的背景。

罗菲:我过去十年主要和TCG诺地卡文化中心还有丽江工作室有过较长时间的合作,目前也和本地的其他画廊和机构进行项目合作。我的背景是一名艺术家,主要从事行为艺术创作,同时也做策展和艺术写作。

创意亚洲:能否介绍一些你的策展项目?你是否有自己独特的策展焦点或兴趣?

罗菲:2005年我参与发起了“江湖”艺术项目,一个众多艺术家参与的游走于城市和农村不同角落的艺术运动。近期参与的策划的有“多重编译:中国-荷兰诗歌与文学交流项目”,参与这个项目的中国艺术家有和丽斌、苏亚碧、宁智、苏家喜、常雄和陈梵元。另一个国际交流项目是“桥梁:中国-瑞典当代艺术交流项目”,还有一些国际及本地艺术家的个展。我通过策展和写作致力于推动中国的当代艺术的发展,关注当代艺术中的精神性内涵和社会化实践,同时为中国当代艺术在全球化环境中的协作与对话搭建桥梁。

创意亚洲:你对即将参与的中国策展澳洲之行项目有什么期待?

罗菲:我是抱着学习的心态去了解澳洲的文化和艺术,尤其是原住民的文化和艺术,我相信这次旅行将对我产生巨大的启发和震动。

创意亚洲:你是否认为将来有与澳洲艺术家或机构一起工作的可能性?你对发展什么样的项目感兴趣?

罗菲:当然!实际上我和澳洲艺术家已经有过一些交流的机会。我对澳洲当代艺术和原住民艺术的发展十分感兴趣。中国云南也有许多不同的民族,如果他们能有机会与澳洲的当代艺术和原住民艺术展开交流,相信这会十分精彩。我以开放的心态去了解我将在澳洲经历的一切。

罗菲是参与2015年8月澳大利亚“达尔文至布鲁密沿途考察项目”的四位中国策展人之一,该项目由澳大利亚文化交流项目发起,澳大利亚驻华使馆支持。
本文由英联邦通过澳中外交与贸易理事会出品。

英文原文地址:http://creative-asia.net/content/kunming-contemporary-independent-curator-luo-fei-art-south-western-china

Kunming contemporary: independent curator Luo Fei on art in south western China

Kunming contemporary: independent curator Luo Fei on art in south western China

Author: CREATIVE ASIA
Date: 7th August 2015

Originally from Chongqing, artist, writer and independent curator Luo Fei has been based in the south-western city of Kunming for the past fifteen years. Working with organisations like TCG Nordica and Lijiang Studio in Yunnan, Luo Fei has initiated international curatorial projects and residency programs with European organisations and artists, focusing on developing connections and collaborations with local creatives.

This month, Luo Fei is travelling to the Top End as part of Cultural Partnerships Australia and the Australian Embassy in China’s Darwin to Broome Road Trip for Chinese Curators. Before he takes off, Luo Fei speakers with CREATIVE ASIA about why Kunming is a lesser-known but important centre of contemporary art in the Asia region, and the potential for meaningful Australia/Yunnan collaborations in the future.

CA: What is the contemporary art scene like in Kunming? How do you think this compares with your home-city in Sichuan, or Beijing or Shanghai?

LF: Kunming has an important position in the history of the development of modern art in China: it was one of the birthplaces of the ‘85 Wave and some of China’s earliest contemporary artists and groups grew up here. There were also some very active and important avant-garde artists working here during 1990s like Tang Zhigang, Liu Jianhua, He Yunchang, Zeng Xiaofeng and Li Ji.
In 2001, Chuangku LOFT art community, an artist-run initiative was established, and was one of the earliest art communities in China. Since then, contemporary art has moved from the underground to the public spotlight, embraced by the urban life of the city. This motivated lots of young artists to set up their own spaces and communities. Today, a new generation of artists and curators working in a more globalized context live and work between Europe, Beijing, Shanghai and Kunming. Compared with Sichuan Province, Beijing or Shanghai, I think the Kunming art scene is more casual and dispersed. Kunming artists are very much aware of nature and inner, emotional experiences.

CA: How have you seen the scene develop over the years?

LF: After 2008, China’s contemporary art scene has become more diversified, less conspicuous grandiose narration or historic turns as before, but more micro-changes. As in other cities, artists tried to seek support from government bodies to develop. On the other hand, local businesses and emerging creative cultural industries also tried to remould art scenes, more and more people tried to link contemporary art into their businesses or events, asking artists to cooperate with society, not resist it.
Compared with an anti-painting trend in the 1990s, a lot of artists have re-embraced painting, especially landscape art. Comparing active art practices in Kunming, there is still a huge potential to develop art education, research, criticism, media and marketing. Recently, curators with crossover identities are playing an interesting and important role, they do curating, writing, creation, teaching and marketing all in one. They promote local contemporary art’s development. At the same time, international projects also provide opportunities for local people to engage with the international art world.

CA: What do you think are the most important contemporary art organisations in Kunming and China more broadly?

LF: In Kunming and Yunnan province, they are Tai Project, TCG Nordica and Lijiang Studio. And Organhaus in Chongqing, Vitamin in Guangzhou. Thousand Plateaus, A4, Blue Roof and MOCA in Chengdu. I’m sure there are many more interesting ones in Beijing and Shanghai…

CA: How did you come to be an independent curator? What’s your background?

LF: Over the past ten years I’ve worked with TCG Nordica and Lijiang Studio. At the moment, I’m working with different organisations on different projects. My background is as an artist, mostly working in performance art. I also do curating and writing.

CA: Can you introduce some of your curatorial projects? What are your curatorial focuses or interests?

LF: I initiated the Jianghu project in 2005, this was a very influential two-year art movement between cities and rural locations in China and Europe. Recently I curated Multiple Adaptations: Chinese-Netherlands Art and Poetry Exchange Project working with Dutch print-makers and Chinese artists like Chang Xiong, Chen Fanyuan, He Libin, Ning Zhi, Su Jiaxi and Su Yabi. Also,Bridges: Chinese-Swedish Exchange Project, and many other international or local artist’s solo exhibitions. I promote Chinese contemporary art through curating and writing – I pay particular attention to the spiritual connotations of works and also social practices.

CA: What are you expecting of your upcoming curators tour to Australia?

LF: I am learning to understand the culture and art of Australia, particularly Aboriginal art, I believe this tour will be enlightening – it should have a great impact.

CA: Do you think there is potential to work with Australian artists or organisations in the future? What kinds of projects would you be interested in developing?

LF: Absolutely! Actually I’ve had some opportunities to meet with Australian artists. I’m very interested in Australian contemporary art and Aboriginal art developments. In Yunnan, we also have lots of different minorities, if we would have an opportunity to meet and collaborate with Aboriginal artists, that would be exciting. I’m open to all experiences and possibilities for this Australia tour.

Luo Fei is one of four Chinese curators participating in Cultural Partnerships Australia’s Darwin to Broome Road Trip for Chinese Curators in August 2015 supported by the Australian Embassy in Beijing.
This content was produced with support from the Commonwealth Government through the Australia-China Council of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.
See more at: http://creative-asia.net/content/kunming-contemporary-independent-curator-luo-fei-art-south-western-china

本文中文阅读:http://blog.luofei.org/2015/08/independent-curator-luo-fei-on-art-in-south-western-china/

On Zhu Jiuyang’s Declaration of the Blind

declaration-of-the-blind03

On Zhu Jiuyang’s Declaration of the Blind

By Luo Fei
Date and Time: February 6, 2015, 10 p.m.
Dialog: Over QQ Voice Message

Note: “The Declaration of the Blind” – the latest conceptual art by the contemporary artist Zhu Jiuyang – was premiered at the 99 Art Gallery and the Four-Dimension Art Space in Beijing on January 18 and 19, 2015. Five blind folk storytelling artists from Northern Shaanxi reinterpreted the full text of the “World Declaration of Human Rights” (hereinafter referred to as the “Declaration”) with their dialect. I had a dialog with Zhu Jiuyang on the background and the expression of his concept for this performance.

Luo Fei: How did you get to know these five blind people from Northern Shaanxi’s Yanchuan County?

Zhu Jiuyang: Years back, I watched the “Blind Storytellers”, a documentary by a young director Bai Zhiqiang. That was about a blind storytelling team from the Qingjian County in Northern Shaanxi. I was great touched and would like to one day work with them. Initially, I was thinking of inviting that group of blind people to perform. They used to be the members of the Performing Arts Propaganda Team during Mao Zedong’s era. However, they are too old now, and it’s rather difficult for me to work with them. Later on, Mr. Bai Zhiqiang introduced me to Mr. Cao Baizhi, a famous talking and singing artist in Yan’an. He then introduced me to this blind storyteller team. They come from Yanchuan, performing with Piba, or Chinese lute, while the previous team played with three-stringed instruments. Among five of them, only one can see a little bit.

Luo Fei: What did they normally sing previously?

Zhu Jiuyang: They used to sing Northern Shaanxi’s folk tales, plus they have been a self-organized Performing Arts Propaganda Team in the county.

Luo Fei: For this project, you spent three years traveling back and forth between Beijing and Northern Shaanxi.

Zhu Jiuyang: That’s right. Back and forth for three years. I thought it was going to be very simple, kind of like as long as I give them the “Declaration”, then they would go ahead and do it. Then I realized that’s not the case at all. It turned out that the adaptation of the “Declaration” into Northern Shaanxi storytelling performance required professional skills and was time-consuming. Because Mr. Cao was busy at that time, I literally said, for a couple of times, forget about it. Being generous, Mr. Cao agreed to help me with it in the end. Besides, it’s not easy to communicate with the blind team, as the ways of both thinking and working differ greatly from person to person. And the content for them to sing was totally new. The stories they were familiar with were the ones that have been passed down from generation to generation, those were easy to remember. There were also those songs that have been composed by the government about parsing socialism. They were all easy to remember. However, this was different in that it’s foreign to them and difficult to remember as there’s no plot in the “Declaration”. Mr. Cao was the only person who can talk to them. It occurred to me later that apart from him, I could have never been able to finish this project.

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Luo Fei: Could they understand your idea and cooperate actively?

Zhu Jiuyang: We practiced for a long time back to their hometown in Northern Shaanxi, but only one day at Beijing. That’s their first time to Beijing, and nobody really took them seriously back to their hometown. Mr. Cao explained the project to them and encouraged them to come over. I personally offered them financial support. Initially, only three of them wanted to come. Later on, as I said I could pay their air tickets and took them to the Tiananmen, the other two agreed to come too. It’s their first time to ride on the plane, and first time to Beijing. I also promised to take them and show them around at the Tiananmen Square. Actually they could not see anything there, so we just walked around the Square. At least they had their wish fulfilled.

Luo Fei: Did they feel something special when they sang this “Declaration”

Zhu Jiuyang: To begin with, it was a performance without plot, so it’s difficult for them to memorize. Then, some of them were worried whether they would be in trouble because of this. To which I told them that China is also a member of the United Nations, as well as a party of relevant treaties. Of course, they became understand the idea of the “Declaration” while working on the project and lamented that: “Oh, all humans are equal?!” I never specifically asked about their understanding on rights and they have never heard of the “Declaration”. Perhaps it all best summed up in one of the lines they sang: “Well, there’s never equality any time.” Perhaps they have felt something in the whole process. As one repeats one phrase again and again, it would press and influence his/her heart and mentality with something. This is the significance of the project from another perspective.

Luo Fei: Do you think they will take the “Declaration” back with them to their mountain areas in Northern Shaanxi?

Zhu Jiuyang: No one likes this at the grassroots level. They prefer those that are interesting and amusing. This is not fun.

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Luo Fei: The “Declaration” is a text composed of a total of thirty provisions, while traditional Northern Shaanxi storytelling is primarily about contents that are telling stories and entertaining. Are there any challenges for the audiences?

Zhu Jiuyang: For one thing, subtitles were not offered to the audiences, so they did not really understand what was going on. And I did it on purpose. Because, to me, this was primarily a project, not a show, so work was very ironic. It was indeed difficult for the audience to sit in a factory building without heater and to finish watching it. Fortunately, it went rather well with the live performance!

Luo Fei: It is the interestingness and the seriousness of the “Declaration” that formed the sharp contrast, and that in turn rendered the irony to the “Declaration”, as the traditional “storytelling” actually talks about fictional stuff. Besides, as I was watching them performing, it seemed as if the leading Pipa performer was on a rock show.

Zhu Jiuyang: That’s right. In fact, I have always thought that the folk arts in Northwestern China have very strong characteristics of modern music, like the folk songs, storytelling in Northern Shaanxi, and even the Qinqiang (or Shaanxi opera). Their talking and singing are actually the direct expression of their heart.

Luo Fei: Compared with other works of yours, what are the major inspiration and challenges?

Zhu Jiuyang: Mainly the relationship between the stage, music and contemporary art. Both the stage and music are unfamiliar to me. I dragged the stage and music into my works, yet could not present them as a show, and it was a performance art after all. It’s rather difficult to keep the boundary, as it could easily become a show if you were not careful. Apparently it’s not bad to have made it like a show! Why can’t it be a piece of work at the same time?

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Luo Fei: Looking at your personal creation course, you’ve been very good at introducing the scenarios and objects of your life experience, such as the flocks in your paintings and performances. For this time round, you introduced the blind storyteller team from Northern Shaanxi. From the perspective of Christian arts, you are expressive in your rendering of religious imageries. The paintings and on-site work – the “Lost Sheep” (2010), for example, obviously managed to introduce the Christian idea of “lost sheep” to the viewers. Likewise, the blind people have special connotation in the New Testament, suggesting the objects that are pitied and healed by Jesus. Jesus’s parable on the blind leading the blind was to teach the absurdity of the dead end of self-righteousness. The Blind Leading the Blind (1568), a famous distemper on linen canvas, by Pieter Bruegel the Elder was an excellent work on this theme.

Zhu Jiuyang: I think this is a special religious experience of mine that most of other artists lack. The voice of sheep in the “Lost Sheep” was a strong metaphor, pointing to a state of mankind. This time, the blind also meant to be metaphorical. According to the biblical narrative, we are all blind, thus cannot see the truth. So the metaphor of the blind is what I would like to address. This is the very thing I’ve been seeking, that is why my works do not specifically aim at any political view but humanity. It’s because in the problem of mankind, they are in nature political too. This will make the work more profound.

Luo Fei: That’s what brought the multiply levels of publicity in your works, being political or concerning public life for one thing and spiritual the other. The very act of the blind singing the Declaration on Human Rights has become an imagery of how the spiritually blind yearn for care and freedom. We know that the direct cause for people to draft the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights” was their reflection on the World War II. So, you made the “Declaration of the Blind” to discuss the reflection and longing for the beautiful existence of human being after men’s departure from God and escape from the Garden of Eden. Do I understand this right?

Zhu Jiuyang: In fact, the “Declaration of the Blind” was not just an expression of the reality, and I never give voice to any political situation. The truth is that I did it more from the perspective of humanity, while mirroring this problem somehow in some way. And ultimately it is an inquiry into human being itself. Aren’t we blind too? In today’s society, how far we are away from the right of true freedom. While the blind is singing to the sighted the rights and freedom of human being, isn’t it the same as enquiring our own hearts?

Luo Fei: Be it the live performance for the “Lost Sheep” or the “Declaration of the Blind”, you have introduced the most marginalized and strange objects to urban life, herds of nomadism for the former and folk storytelling from the mountainous region for the latter. It created a tremendous tension on the site, and formed a sort of confrontation. In the “Lost Sheep”, for example, the hanging sheep was unceasingly moaning and bleating, coupled with the tension between the wolf masked sheep and the rest of the flock. Those blind people performed in the “Declaration of the Blind” were a group of people from the bottom of the society with little education. With a group people joyously singing “Declaration of Human Rights”, just like the bleating sound of the hanging sheep, causing people to watch with embarrassment and anger. I think you have handled the absurdity of the rite well, and it’s like some of the scenes in your paintings. Whether it’s the bleating lamb hanged up in the air or the blind people singing the “Declaration on Human Rights”, they have been place at the center of a theater to be watched, or even be spitted on. It’s absurd and sacred at the same time, just like when Christ was crucified on the cross. It is not the strong that speaks out loud, but the weak that has been scorned at – the helpless lamb and the sightless and unprotected blind – this is what makes your works “absurd”. And its sanctity lies in their effort to give voice for others in spite of their suffering.

Zhu Jiuyang: When the artists look for resources and materials to apply in their creation, they are inseparable from his personal life experience. One winter evening many years ago, I was walking on the darkening road in the countryside. The air was mixed with the smell of soot, then I heard a still small voice: “Delicious konishii-” I saw a man, bending over, was dragging a cart while repeated breathing that one sentence. The small voice was cut to my heart. It occurred to me at the moment that the gentlest voice turned out to be most powerful one.

Luo Fei: Thank you for your sharing!

About “Declaration of the Blind”:
Artist: Zhu Jiuyang
Work: “Declaration of the Blind”
Formats: On-site Photograph, Video
Cooperating Artists: The Blind Storytelling Team from Yanchuan County, Northern Shaanxi
Performance Venues: Beijing Song Zhuang 99 Art Gallery, Original Four-Dimension Art Space
Props: Stage, white cloth, storyteller instruments
Content: “Universal Declaration of Human Rights”
Adaptation: Cao Baizhi
Length: About 40 minutes